snugglebunny, it is not only OK Biblically, that is the official Watchtower position on the matter, but most JWs are not aware of that. Therefore, it is perfectly appropriate to acknowledge that many Witnesses are homosexuals, just as many are unmarried heterosexuals who choose to remain celibate. I knew a 50-year old Circuit Overseer who had never married. When my local elders rejected a letter from the Branch supporting the view I expressed above, that CO admitted to me in private that he was a celibate homosexual and he had never married because he was not sexually attracted to women.
Roger Kirkpatrick
JoinedPosts by Roger Kirkpatrick
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86
Do You Know Any “Gay” Jehovah’s Witnesses?
by minimus inof course the religion condemns homosexuality but did you know any gay witnesses?
i knew some bethelites that were very effeminate and i remember 4 women who were suspected of being lesbians by many in the congregation.
they eventually moved away and were very vocal against males, especially elders..
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86
Do You Know Any “Gay” Jehovah’s Witnesses?
by minimus inof course the religion condemns homosexuality but did you know any gay witnesses?
i knew some bethelites that were very effeminate and i remember 4 women who were suspected of being lesbians by many in the congregation.
they eventually moved away and were very vocal against males, especially elders..
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Roger Kirkpatrick
ShirleyW and Snugglebunny: Homosexuality is same sex attraction whether such attraction is acted upon or not. Leviticus describes a man having sexual relations with a man, or the act of fornication. In a similar vein, the Bible condemns the practice of drunkenness, not alcoholism, which is an unnatural desire for alcohol. Many alcoholics abstain from practicing drunkenness, and most homosexuals abstain from practicing fornication. The Bible makes a distinction between an inclination toward sin and the actually sin.
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86
Do You Know Any “Gay” Jehovah’s Witnesses?
by minimus inof course the religion condemns homosexuality but did you know any gay witnesses?
i knew some bethelites that were very effeminate and i remember 4 women who were suspected of being lesbians by many in the congregation.
they eventually moved away and were very vocal against males, especially elders..
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Roger Kirkpatrick
Snugglebunny, Homosexuality is same sex attraction whether such attraction is acted upon or not. Leviticus describes a man lying down with a man, or the act of fornication. In a similar vein, the Bible condemns the practice of drunkenness, not alcoholism, which is an unnatural desire for alcohol. Many alcoholics abstain from practicing drunkenness, and most homosexuals abstain from practicing fornication. It is a matter of making a distinction, and not all persons are able to do that.
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86
Do You Know Any “Gay” Jehovah’s Witnesses?
by minimus inof course the religion condemns homosexuality but did you know any gay witnesses?
i knew some bethelites that were very effeminate and i remember 4 women who were suspected of being lesbians by many in the congregation.
they eventually moved away and were very vocal against males, especially elders..
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Roger Kirkpatrick
Contrary to common belief, neither the Bible nor the Watchtower condemns homosexuality. They do condemn the practice of fornication. -
86
Do You Know Any “Gay” Jehovah’s Witnesses?
by minimus inof course the religion condemns homosexuality but did you know any gay witnesses?
i knew some bethelites that were very effeminate and i remember 4 women who were suspected of being lesbians by many in the congregation.
they eventually moved away and were very vocal against males, especially elders..
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Roger Kirkpatrick
Over the years, the Watchtower published letters from elders, ministerial servants and other Witnesses in good standing who admitted having to strenuously fight their homosexual urges, most of whom were married to women, which begs the question, Do heterosexuals commonly have to fight homosexual urges?
In 1983, the Watchtower explained that the term homosexual could appropriately be applied to those who felt same sex attraction even if they never acted on such feelings. Of course, many ignorant elders held to the view that a homosexual was only one practicing homosexual fornication. Yet, a person who is sexually attracted to the opposite sex is considered heterosexual even if, for whatever reason, one chooses to remain single and celibate. So, a man once told a Witness that he would love to be a JW but he was homosexual and homosexuals could not become JWs. The Witness told the man that he might be surprised how many JWs are homosexual.
I urge anyone who disagrees with my comments to watch the excellent British film, "Victim," starring Dirk Bogarde, the complete version of which can be viewed on YouTube. An attorney with political ambitions is gay, yet married to the woman he loves. He plans to draw out and expose someone who is blackmailing homosexuals throughout the city. (Prior to 1960, homosexuals in Britain were imprisoned.) In so doing, he becomes a victim of the blackmailer. In a pivotal scene, he is advised by a group of victims to simply pay the blackmailer. Explaining why he is the one best qualified to draw out the blackmailer, he tells the group, "I share your instincts, but I have never acted on them!"
It is a very enlightening film and well illustrates the Watchtower's current view of homosexuality.
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An Active JW Sister Modelling For Me
by pale.emperor insince leaving the borg i jumped both feet first into classes i've always wanted to do but was never "allowed" to.
two of which are life drawing and photography.
i've been studying for almost two years now and have seen more nude men and women in our classes than i care to remember.. today in the photography studio i was working in with three others (two women, one man) we were told we had a new person modelling for us.
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Roger Kirkpatrick
My sister-in-law in Abilene, Texas, was a regular pioneer, married to the PO, yet she was in an art group which met every Monday night called the Dirty Drawers. They often had nude models.
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Forced to Choose Between Beliefs and Family
by Roger Kirkpatrick in[please feel free to share.].
forced to choose between beliefs and family.
“no one should be forced to worship in a way that he finds objectionable or be made to choose between his beliefs and his family.” that statement appeared in an article entitled “is it wrong to change your religion?” in the july 2009 awake magazine, published and distributed widely by jehovah’s witnesses.. nearly everyone reading that statement would consider it to be mere common sense.
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Roger Kirkpatrick
@BluesBrother, for relevant documentation relating to that June 1, 1991, Watchtower, see the Facebook page "Jehovah's Witnesses and the United Nations."
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Forced to Choose Between Beliefs and Family
by Roger Kirkpatrick in[please feel free to share.].
forced to choose between beliefs and family.
“no one should be forced to worship in a way that he finds objectionable or be made to choose between his beliefs and his family.” that statement appeared in an article entitled “is it wrong to change your religion?” in the july 2009 awake magazine, published and distributed widely by jehovah’s witnesses.. nearly everyone reading that statement would consider it to be mere common sense.
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Roger Kirkpatrick
[Please feel free to share.]
Forced to Choose Between Beliefs and Family
“No one should be forced to worship in a way that he finds objectionable or be made to choose between his beliefs and his family.” That statement appeared in an article entitled “Is It Wrong to Change Your Religion?” in the July 2009 Awake magazine, published and distributed widely by Jehovah’s Witnesses.
Nearly everyone reading that statement would consider it to be mere common sense. However, to a Jehovah’s Witness, that statement only applies to those changing religions to become a Jehovah's Witness, not to those who leave the Witnesses for conscientious reasons.
That same Awake article continued: “Does study of the Bible lead to family breakup? No. In fact, the Bible encourages a husband and wife who practice different religions to remain together as a family.” Yet, Jehovah’s Witnesses who voluntarily leave the religion for conscientious reasons are often divorced by their mates who remain in the religion. When I resigned as a Witness in 2015, my wife of 43 years divorced me.
It has been said that the Jehovah’s Witness religion is like the Eagles’ Hotel California where “you can check out any time you like, but you can never leave.” An individual Witness can “check out,” as it were, by becoming inactive, ceasing to attend meetings at the Kingdom Hall and not actively preaching, required activities for active Witnesses. However, if at any age one chooses to “leave” by voluntarily resigning from the religion for conscientious reasons, one is ostracized and shunned by family and friends who remain in the religion. Such treatment of ex-Witnesses is mandated by the Watchtower Society, the legal organization of Jehovah’s Witnesses, and anyone failing to obey that directive is subject to the same treatment. Many observers–evidently including the Russian government–view this common practice by Jehovah’s Witnesses to be a violation of basic human rights.
Jehovah’s Witnesses believe that they alone are God’s organization on earth today, and their actions over past decades suggest that they consider themselves to be an entitled religion, exempt from the judgments they presumptuously impose on other religions. For example, the article “Are You Also Excommunicated?” in the January 8, 1947, Awake magazine criticized the Catholic Church’s practice of excommunicating those who violate Church laws, stating that the practice has no basis in scripture and is of pagan origin. However, just five years later, in 1952, the Watchtower Society embraced a more severe form of excommunication called disfellowshiping. Unlike excommunication, disfellowshiping requires that morally upright persons who leave the Witnesses for conscientious reasons be completely shunned and viewed as dead by family and friends who remain Witnesses.
Similarly, the article “Their Refuge–A Lie!” in the June 1, 1991, Watchtower denounced as apostate other religions specifically for being accredited to the United Nations as non-governmental organizations (NGO). However, before 1991 ended, the Watchtower Society had also become accredited to the UN as an NGO. While publicly denouncing the UN as the Devil’s visible organization, the Watchtower Society served essentially as publicity agents for the UN and served in that capacity for the next ten years, reapplying each year for accreditation, until the double standard was exposed in an expose by the Guardian newspaper in October 2001.
Jehovah’s Witnesses are taught that it is their God-given responsibility to expose religious error and hypocrisy wherever they find it. They often visit their neighbors–uninvited–and warn them to leave their Babylonish false religions or face destruction by God at Armageddon. They believe that failure to render such warning makes one blood-guilty before God. Yet, Witnesses who openly challenge unscriptural Watchtower teachings and practices are routinely disfellowshiped and branded as mentally diseased apostates.
It's been said that when a toxic person can no longer control you, they will try to influence how others view you. If only in spirit, Jehovah’s Witnesses closely resemble the Islamic State (ISIS) which literally kills those whom it views as infidels.
President Barack Obama stated, “We must work together to decisively and unequivocally reject hateful ideologies, teachings and practices that are incompatible with the values of religious tolerance, mutual respect and human dignity.”
In his book, “Going Clear: Scientology, Hollywood, and the Prison of Belief,” Lawrence Wright wrote: “People have the right to believe whatever they choose. But it is a different matter to use the protections afforded a religion by the First Amendment to falsify history, to propagate forgeries, and to cover up human-rights abuses.”
Russia recently banned Jehovah’s Witnesses as an extremist religion which threatens human rights and destroys families. I believe that any religious organization which suppresses truth, or manufactures and propagates its own truth, is an oppressive and harmful cult. Furthermore, I believe that any religious organization which violates the basic human rights of its members–such as requiring families to shun members who leave for conscientious reasons–should have its tax-exempt status revoked.
Roger Kirkpatrick
Texas Hill Country
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JWs shunning other active JWs
by Roger Kirkpatrick inhow many others have noticed how common it is for active jws to ostracize and shun other active jws?
as far back as i can recall, jws have had an ongoing problem with cliques within congregations, and special needs talks would be given from time to time to address that trend.
but, it seems to me that the practice has become even more pronounced with entire congregations actively shunning other congregations.
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Roger Kirkpatrick
I knew a very devout "sister" who left a religion in order to become a JW. Sometime after her baptism, she began partaking of the memorial emblems, and she was immediately ostracized and virtually shunned--not at the KH, but socially. She was shunned by her former church and now by JWs. Just terrible!
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JWs shunning other active JWs
by Roger Kirkpatrick inhow many others have noticed how common it is for active jws to ostracize and shun other active jws?
as far back as i can recall, jws have had an ongoing problem with cliques within congregations, and special needs talks would be given from time to time to address that trend.
but, it seems to me that the practice has become even more pronounced with entire congregations actively shunning other congregations.
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Roger Kirkpatrick
How many others have noticed how common it is for active JWs to ostracize and shun other active JWs? As far back as I can recall, JWs have had an ongoing problem with cliques within congregations, and special needs talks would be given from time to time to address that trend. But, it seems to me that the practice has become even more pronounced with entire congregations actively shunning other congregations. My older brother--who is an elder--and our younger sister (a devout JW) actively shun one another. I have spoken to other ex-JWs who have commented that their active JW relatives have not spoken to one another for years, even decades. It would appear that, once one begins the practice of shunning, no one is exempt as a target. Before I officially disassociated, I commented on a JW email discussion group that I had been in seven different congregations in my lifetime. Each congregation did things differently from the others, and--without exception--each congregation felt it was the only one doing things correctly. A retired CO who was in that email group responded that I didn't realize just how accurate my observation was! I think it all begins with judging other individuals, then judging other congregations, and it just snowballs until it gets out of control. I also think COs have a lot to do with stirring up contentions between congregations. I'm interested in the observations of others--especially former elders--on this subject. Thanks!